Don't blame the American people for the Iraq war, they didn't vote Bush in - power in America was seized by a bunch of extremely rich oil loving cronies. My only question is why the people don't seize it back.

Somebody's been taking all our guns for the past 40 years.

Weird. Where I have lived you can get guns. There is a waiting period, which I support. But there are even loopholes for that with gun shows and people selling their guns on Craigslist. Every year there is a drive here to turn in illegal guns to law enforcement with no questions asked. It always nets hundreds of guns. As far as I can tell there are guns to be had pretty much every where.

I'll tell you what, Franklin. Strap a gun to your hip like a cowboy, and stroll down the street in your city. Tell me how many blocks you get down before the SWAT team shows up.

About 2 blocks.
I am 100% legal for concealed carry here in Kentucky. Last summer I got out of my truck with my shoulder holster on and put on my jacket. (it took all of 12 sec.) Within 10 min. I had three cops guns drawn asking me to get on the ground.
Now I was comming out of the bank. But I carry when I make my deposits. It is legal to carry in a bank but someone saw me getting of my truck and called the cops.
I did get an appology....I cannot really fault them but they could of confronted me different.

It's just like cigarettes. They are 100% legal to buy, anywhere, but light one up, anywhere, and watch the mayhem ensue. Our rights are rapidly turning into privileges.

You think we should be able to walk around with guns - killing machines? Would it be any different it someone walked around with the anthrax virus in a parcel, or a bomb? Whats the distinction? Oh yeah, that constitution thing written hundreds of years ago says its ok to have guns.

You think we should be able to walk around with guns - killing machines? Would it be any different it someone walked around with the anthrax virus in a parcel, or a bomb? Whats the distinction? - Harry O'Connor

Hundreds of years ago, when people did walk around with guns, they also walked around with morals, conscience, judgement, common sense. If a criminal thought about holding up a bank or train, he knew that when he drew his gun, there might be several aimed at him. And with medicine what it was back then, even a slight gunshot wound could kill you.

Our media presents gunplay like some sort of video game. Oh, you can get shot 20 times and just power up for more action. What our media should be showing is emergency wards, and all these tough guys crying for their mommy, just before they die on the table. And since we live in a country that has a death penalty, we should air executions on TV and in public. To keep them secret deters nobody. Destroy the glamour of crime, and you can lessen it quite a bit.

As far as walking down the street with Anthrax, anyone who would do that is a psychopath, and hardly relevent to the argument. You don't go hunting with Anthrax. You don't target practice at the range with Anthrax.

"As far as walking down the street with Anthrax, anyone who would do that is a psychopath, and hardly relevant to the argument. You don't go hunting with Anthrax. You don't target practice at the range with Anthrax."

Because people go hunting with guns makes it alright now? We stun animals with electricity - so is it ok if I walk around with a tazer gun then? What about animal poison, is that ok? Just because it is used to kill animals does not mean a weapon should be by distinction allowed to be carried around heavily populated areas.

People in suburban cities don't go hunting with 22 mm pistols either - and I consider anyone that walks around with a gun in a city a psychopath. The very notion that guns protect us is ludicrous. Its akin to the idea of all the major countries building nuclear missiles is protecting the planet. I don't think the cold war was an exercise in protecting people, it was a paranoid and fearful show of might. One man brings a baseball bat, the next man brings a knife, the next a gun, then what? I feel safer knowing that I can't kill someone within a few seconds, and the people around me are unlikely to bring out a gun at any moment.

In the uk we dont have many gun killings, well not as many as in the states and the reason why is because people don't have as many guns. I don't own a gun, never have - in fact I don't know anyone that does. Most of our police men don't carry guns. If you give everyone a device that kills people with the press of a button you are simply asking for trouble.

I do agree about the media though - death is glamorized these days and it shouldn't be.

Well, we do have people who walk around with guns in cities here. They're called police. And I feel no safer with them in sole possession of weaponry, than I do if all of us carried a gun. They have guns in the UK, and are usually used for hunting. They are also in the realm of slow loading, slow action armament. I'm in agreement on the type of weaponry available. You don't hunt with a taser, a semi-auto or automatic weapon, a bazooka or hand-grenade. If weaponry was limited to what is actually used in hunting, this would be a different story. A pistol is not an easy thing to fire, and actually hit a target. A bolt action rifle would be very slow to use in gang warfare. It would not be very easy to shoot up a campus with a 12 guage shotgun. You can blame the people who manufacture and sell military style weaponry for this. But to blame people who like to go out in the woods and hunt?

But, you also had a more responsible media in the UK. I've never seen British import shows with excessive violence. You have not been flooded with the garbage that is seen here. And you have a better educated country, by and large, than America. I mean, after the stupidity that George Bush perpetrated in his first 4 year term, we went an elected him again. How smart are we? And in order to keep a black man or woman from taking power, we will probably have another Republican corporate stooge running things for the next 8 years. Who cares if we get crapped on again, as long as we show those intellectuals.

I have to say I'm not very keen on hunting. I guess its better than mass producing animals for food (which sadly is needed these days), but most of (not all I have to say) the hunting people i've met don't hunt for food, or because of the idea that they prey are pests - they do it for "jollies". I heard a quote that sums it up pretty well it went something like "If hunting was about getting rid of pests we would round up a pack of cats and dress up to chase mice with".

My argument here is that just because something is practiced as a "sport", does not mean its right.

I do not understand how you feel safer with the idea that when you walk in a crowd of people, you know some of them have guns as well as the police. Any of them could pull a gun out and kill you for no reason if they are unstable or having a very bad day.

The media is to blame for everything these days, but at the end of the day the media like everything else is a response to our wants and needs. The same goes with politics and they are intertwined - fox news is really a voice box for the republican party. There is a reason many countries are becoming predominantly neo-conservative and they get away with routine murder in other countries. Bush was not voted in, he cheated his way in. The people were angry but nothing was done about it. If the national front (kind of like our version of the Nazi party or an ultra right wing neo-con party) cheated their way in to power here - I would chain myself to number 10 and do something about it - passively of course, no guns would be required.

I like this discussions Joseph, gets me thinking - cheers!

Yes I am of the opinion that you shouldn't be able to walk around with a gun any where you go here. There is a bill up now to make it legal to take a gun to your place of work and leave it in your car. I mean even if the place you work doesn't have a policy against it, it should be common sense that you shouldn't be able to have a gun any where you want one. Normal good people under pressure blow a gasket every once in a while. That combined with a gun could be dangerous.

As for smoking, there is nothing more disgusting thatn breathing fresh air and getting someones second hand smoke. Not only do you get the awful smell of tobacco, it is infused with the smokers moist breath. Gag

Our other rights, the ones that do not potentially damage other peoples health are disappearing too quickly. It really pisses me off that people can be held without a reason. Just because some right wing whacko is suspicious and lives in a weird freaked out voyeuristic paranoia is no reason to infringe on the real things that make this a great country.

I'm not really advocating everyone walking around armed to the teeth, but if everyone was allowed to bear arms, like our constitution claims to permit, the climate in this country would be very different. Including the way our government behaves toward it's people.

If guns had never been invented, there would be some other form of weaponry at the seat of this conversation, swords, spears, butcher knives. If someone wants to do harm to another, they will think of some way to do it, if the most expedient way is not available. Just like a lock only keeps honest people honest.

Growing up in Louisiana, I was exposed to guns all my life. I did not develop a warped fascination for them, they are tools for hunting, as nets and poles are tools for fishing. Back there, we do hunt for food, and it is never wasted. If it is too much, it is shared with family or friends. We don't trophy hunt(I shouldn't say we, I haven't went hunting in over 25 years, and don't own weapons of any kind, anymore), to have a stuffed head on our walls, although there are some who keep skulls, claws and the like to sell to tourists. And Louisiana is one of the rare states where you don't here about spree killings, mass murder and serial killers. It's not perfect there, but it's a damn sight better than 30 or so other states in the US.

- and I consider anyone that walks around with a gun in a city a psychopath. Harry O'Connor

Wow Harry, I do understand that everyone had a right to an opinion but to insult a member on your own website seems a little harsh.

I am not a hunter and I do not kill for food. Most of my family were either Police or Fireman so I grew up to respect guns and what they can do. I have had a gun permit for over 17 years now and I have never once pulled it out or thought of pulling in a situation.

These days my reason to have a gun is that for buisness I will make sometimes large deposits at the bank. Due to the current state of affairs here and the way the economy is, I want to make sure I have a chance to defend myself if there is someone that wants my deposit more that I do.

Last week my son came home and found that our back door was kicked in. We have an alarm so they were scared away but I promise I will do whatever it takes to protect my family.

Please Harry understand I am not angry just a little uncomfortable about the statement.

well now, isn't this a gun carrying pissing contest. if you've got a big enough bank deposit to justify carrying a weapon, you've got enough money to move to a better neighborhood.

but from where i sit, no one has answered shahin's question. . ."When this will end?"

it will end, shahin, when the iraqi government says "no more".

Hey Richard not trying to insult anyone here - it's just a lively discussion - we are allowed those aren't we?. My statement was in response to:-

"As far as walking down the street with Anthrax, anyone who would do that is a psychopath..."

I understand things are different over there, but I would be very, very uneasy if I found out my next door neighbor had a gun. And this might offend, but I think the American constitution needs an update. I mean it was passed in 1787 - people still burned witches then and slavery would continue for an other 100 years. However people still follow the rules written within it.

Anyway, enough of my babble.

"it will end, shahin, when the iraqi government says "no more"." - Art Winstanley

It will end, Art, when gas prices have permanently leveled off to around $7 or $8 a gallon. This war was not started because of our government's deep caring concern for the Iraqi peoples, nor because of retribution against Bin Laden and 911(although that helped as a nice cover-up springboard.) It was started to line the pockets of Bush's oil cronies.


"I think the American constitution needs an update. I mean it was passed in 1787 - people still burned witches then and slavery would continue for an other 100 years. However people still follow the rules written within it." - Harry O'Connor

The Bible was written thousands of years ago, and we still adhere to those tenets. The constitution has been amended many times since it's inception. Maybe we should return to the original document, rather than updating it yet again. And, unfortunately, our government rarely follows the rules of the Constitution, unless they are publicly forced to.

Hey Joseph, I think in the UK we pay $10 a gallon already! We pay a lot of tax on fuel.

As for the Bible, I don't follow it as a rule book. It says things like people should be stoned to death if the are unfaithful or work on the Sabbath. Needs an update... Maybe there should be a bible 2.0 (or 3.0 if you count the old testament) I mean, who hasnt cursed their parents at some point:

"All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)"

and

"Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)"

I should be careful what I say really, I don't want to offend anyone - think I have done already! Sorry!