Forum - Marketing Your Art
Marketing Your Art
646 messages posted
United States of America
I thought it might be a good idea to have an information pooling
thread about the business side of art. I am no financial expert,
by a long shot, but I do have experience in many ways to make
money, some successfully, some not so. But I've always adhered
to the philosophy of learning by my mistakes, so even they can be
helpful in this thread.
I think this thread will profit well-established artists as well as newcomers. Old dogs can always learn new tricks, if they keep an open mind. And since on-line marketing will be discussed, I'm sure the old-timers who were not raised on these machines will benefit.
I have worked in just about every aspect of this business, at some point in my life. Some of my job titles and descriptions include(or included) art framer, shipper, art restoration(metal sculpture), art handler(installation), special services installation, installation build and rebuild, atmosphere construction, Board of Directors for arts organization and gallery owner. Some of those descriptions sound loftier than they really are. I started out in construction when I was 14, so most of those jobs are derivative of that experience.
Of course, not counting my life as an artist, and creating and selling work in just about every venue I could think of. From galleries to print publication, art fairs to streetcorner, contests to on-line galleries, I've tried it all.
I'd like to sub-divide the thread into different categories of discussion. If you can think of an area not covered, throw it into the mix.
The categories I've come up with include:
Personal style vs. trends
Galleries- from backstreet to Big Apple
Selling yourself along with your art
Pricing your work
Website vs. on-line galleries
I'd like to start this thread out with a convo concerning the pros and cons of EBay against other advertising sites. I can only speak from the American side of the pond, on this topic, so I'd like to hear the rest of the world's point of view.
I think this thread will profit well-established artists as well as newcomers. Old dogs can always learn new tricks, if they keep an open mind. And since on-line marketing will be discussed, I'm sure the old-timers who were not raised on these machines will benefit.
I have worked in just about every aspect of this business, at some point in my life. Some of my job titles and descriptions include(or included) art framer, shipper, art restoration(metal sculpture), art handler(installation), special services installation, installation build and rebuild, atmosphere construction, Board of Directors for arts organization and gallery owner. Some of those descriptions sound loftier than they really are. I started out in construction when I was 14, so most of those jobs are derivative of that experience.
Of course, not counting my life as an artist, and creating and selling work in just about every venue I could think of. From galleries to print publication, art fairs to streetcorner, contests to on-line galleries, I've tried it all.
I'd like to sub-divide the thread into different categories of discussion. If you can think of an area not covered, throw it into the mix.
The categories I've come up with include:
Personal style vs. trends
Galleries- from backstreet to Big Apple
Selling yourself along with your art
Pricing your work
Website vs. on-line galleries
I'd like to start this thread out with a convo concerning the pros and cons of EBay against other advertising sites. I can only speak from the American side of the pond, on this topic, so I'd like to hear the rest of the world's point of view.
646 messages posted
United States of America
I used Ebay when I first got on the
net. The only one who made any
money was the owner of EBay.
I use Craigslist almost exclusively. It is free, allows you up to 160 ads, and goes to almost as many places as Ebay. IT discourages multiple postings of the same item, but there are ways to skirt that problem.
Here is an example of one of my website ads. It's posted in Orlando Florida. http://orlando.craigslist.or g/ats/
The trick with these ads is to assemble them in Word, post them to see if everything works, go into their edit and copy the html code, paste it in Word and save it. Theoretically, you can repost your ad, every day, by deleting the old one and repasting it. And it only takes a few minutes if you have everything preformatted. I'd skip their photo uploader, as it usually looks terrible(200x300p thumbs). Better to do a layout and include it in your ad.
I use Craigslist almost exclusively. It is free, allows you up to 160 ads, and goes to almost as many places as Ebay. IT discourages multiple postings of the same item, but there are ways to skirt that problem.
Here is an example of one of my website ads. It's posted in Orlando Florida. http://orlando.craigslist.or g/ats/
The trick with these ads is to assemble them in Word, post them to see if everything works, go into their edit and copy the html code, paste it in Word and save it. Theoretically, you can repost your ad, every day, by deleting the old one and repasting it. And it only takes a few minutes if you have everything preformatted. I'd skip their photo uploader, as it usually looks terrible(200x300p thumbs). Better to do a layout and include it in your ad.
646 messages posted
United States of America
I'm in an area triangulated by three major urban populations, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale and West Palm Beach. To waste that exposure on one area alone, would be a waste. Although Craigslist only allows one ad on any given thing, there are ways to get around that rule.
No. 1 - Different titles for your ad. Come up with variations on your ad title. Let's say you are advertising popsicles.
A. DELICIOUS FROZEN TREATS 4SALE
B. YUMMY ICED GOODIES
C. TASTY SNACKS
etc. etc. (always caps your titles for max exposure)
No. 2 - Craigslist also keeps tabs on your ad text, so you will have to come up with various wordings and layout for the same ad. If you place a repeat ad, and a notice comes up that you placed a similar ad, go back and reedit some more.
No. 3 - Craigslist runs your ad for 45 days, before it expires. But common sense will tell you that nobody will see your ad after the first 2 days. To keep your ad fresh and in the public eye, copy it(I keep all my ads on file), delete it, and repost it every 2 or 3 days(until you get the results you want- a sale, commission or whatever). Craigslist allows you to have 160 concurrent ads, so that gives you a lot of room to play.
No. 4 - If you are selling something on the low to mid-range level, concentrate on the nearest large population markets(anything within, say 150-200 miles from you). If they want it, they will come. If you are selling something high-end(or advertising a website) go for the major markets(NY, LA, London, Chicago, etc. Craigslist is starting to expand everywhere)
No. 5 - It is free, so take advantage of it. EBay is out to make money for EBay, and from all accounts I've heard, nobody really gets anywhere with it. I made $3200 off Craigslist in February(and more, before Feb.) between selling a painting and services I have advertised. I have made $0 off of a year of dealing with EBay. You be the judge.
719 messages posted
United Kingdom
Hey Joseph I totally agree with you
about ebay. they are the only one
that makes any money.
I have tried it a couple of times but it is more trouble than it is worth.
I also find it demeans the quality of the product, especially if the customer links it to my website.
This craiglist is it in UK?
I havent got time now its pretty hectic this week specially being a day short Friday.
But I will check it out thanks for the info Joseph.........
should be a useful thread; cheers mate.
I have tried it a couple of times but it is more trouble than it is worth.
I also find it demeans the quality of the product, especially if the customer links it to my website.
This craiglist is it in UK?
I havent got time now its pretty hectic this week specially being a day short Friday.
But I will check it out thanks for the info Joseph.........
should be a useful thread; cheers mate.
646 messages posted
United States of America
To my understanding, Craigslist has
a presence in Europe and other
foreign markets, but, as of yet, is
not as strong or popular as EBay.
There is also a site called ECrater
that seems to be gaining ground.
EBay seems to draw a lot of bargain hunters(cheapskates). They wait till the last hour that the ad is up, and offer you some ridiculous sum, in the hopes you are so desperate by then, that you'll take any offer. I'm sure there are tricks to maximizing your sales on EBay, but how much will it cost you to learn them?
EBay seems to draw a lot of bargain hunters(cheapskates). They wait till the last hour that the ad is up, and offer you some ridiculous sum, in the hopes you are so desperate by then, that you'll take any offer. I'm sure there are tricks to maximizing your sales on EBay, but how much will it cost you to learn them?
24 messages posted
Germany
Hey together. Great idea to talk
about marketing. About ebay - I am
not sure, I started painting some
simple illustrations like frogkings
and sold it on ebay for a low
price. After that I received orders
and had some small sales beside
ebay, too. I don't like ebay anyway
but my experience is not as bad as
yours it seems.
I don't link ebay to my site because I don't want to.
There are online galleries which offer to print your offered art and you choose the percents you take for that...Anyone experiences with this kind of sales?
I don't link ebay to my site because I don't want to.
There are online galleries which offer to print your offered art and you choose the percents you take for that...Anyone experiences with this kind of sales?
719 messages posted
United Kingdom
Joseph I dont think its the cost it
the time you have to spend with all
the useless emails you keep getting
and you cant bulk them or spam em
in case it is a decent offer.I feel
it is not worth the grief, And you
have to wait for the payment.
You dont get payment from paypal for at least 2 weeks NOT GOOD BIZ#
When anyone emails my site I know they mean business and the card payment goes into my account within 48hours.
I know I dont get the passing trade but I dont get grief either.
I hope we have put voodoo artists off using ebay becuase I personally do not think it ideal to sell our work.
But I am going to look at the others you have suggested. I thank you again for sharing.
You dont get payment from paypal for at least 2 weeks NOT GOOD BIZ#
When anyone emails my site I know they mean business and the card payment goes into my account within 48hours.
I know I dont get the passing trade but I dont get grief either.
I hope we have put voodoo artists off using ebay becuase I personally do not think it ideal to sell our work.
But I am going to look at the others you have suggested. I thank you again for sharing.
646 messages posted
United States of America
There are artists who have had good
experiences with EBay. I am not one
of them. But they have related
stories of success with small
pieces and prints. I would love to
here some pro-EBay tales, and their
methods.
258 messages posted
France
Funny, I've got a Fan Club and I've
just started this very topic of how
to market yourself as an artist.
I've been told many times that ebay
is a good way but I've resisted so
far as I don't feel that any
gallery worth it's sort will take
you seriously if you're selling
your stuff on ebay. Maybe I'm just
being an internet snob but I do
feel that people go there to get a
bargain. Why on earth would a
serious art collector go to ebay?
It doesn't make sense.
Another point I've made is that I feel anything sold on the internet has a certain risk involved. If the risk is too great, then people will not buy. For example, if they don't know you or your 'company' then whatever they pay is a risk. Equally if the price is too high, then the risk is too great.
I can see that ebay would be good for small, fun paintings which are done quickly and are easy to send but not for serious art. I'm going to start a series of miniatures and have a separate page on my website. I don't like having to do this but I do need to eat. I'd love to hear of anyone else who may be doing the same thing.
Another point I've made is that I feel anything sold on the internet has a certain risk involved. If the risk is too great, then people will not buy. For example, if they don't know you or your 'company' then whatever they pay is a risk. Equally if the price is too high, then the risk is too great.
I can see that ebay would be good for small, fun paintings which are done quickly and are easy to send but not for serious art. I'm going to start a series of miniatures and have a separate page on my website. I don't like having to do this but I do need to eat. I'd love to hear of anyone else who may be doing the same thing.
646 messages posted
United States of America
I don't really think you should go
over the $1000 level, trying to
sell anything on the net. Let's
face it, most everyone online is a
bargain hunter of some sort. I've
learned to weed out the spamdits
from the real deal. So a crook
would have to be superclever to get
one over on me.
133 messages posted
United Kingdom
Hi all, just been catching up with
this forum. I must admit ebay
hasn't done me any favours. Not
from post cards to off cut prints.
Tried to build my own web shop
also, took too much time and gave
in on that. But what I did is set
up a simple section on my web site
called 'what can I buy?' and for
the first time in six years of
running a web site I had two major
sales and a few minor. In fact it
was the second biggest sales area
last year. But all in all the art
fairs, all of which are out side
and I show with up to 50 other
artists are still the main way of
selling. I think the secret of the
sales with the web site was joining
paypal.
646 messages posted
United States of America
PayPal is a major necessity to do
business on the net. Get that
squared away before anything else.
I've done a few art fairs. Didn't
enjoy it myself. Too much Mother
Nature for the money I made.
133 messages posted
United Kingdom
I know what you mean when it comes
to mother nature, with all the rain
we had in the UK last year, I had
only 11 days of show against 20
plus I usually have. And the down
side also is if it rains you don't
get money back for the pitch. But I
do find when there is good weather
meeting the customers and
explaining the art work up close
can earn furture purchases.
646 messages posted
United States of America
I don't think I could have ever
made a habit out of art fairs. It's
nice to travel, and meet people,
but there's a lot of wear and tear
on the artwork, and booth location
can determine whether you have an
interesting day, or sit on your
keister doing Soduko puzzles. Of
course, the more you pay, the
better the spot, but the more you
have to sell to turn a profit. And
all the packing and unpacking. A
LOT of work.
133 messages posted
United Kingdom
Yep! the packing and unpacking is a
problem. If I was able to park in a
garage it would reduce it. The
finding things to do can be a but
of problem when things are slow.
But generally the price of an out
door event is a lot cheaper than
galleries. The only gallery that
shows my work charges 37 per cent
and then vat, that's another 17.5
per cent. What sort of charges do
you expect where you are?
646 messages posted
United States of America
Rule number one(for me)- I don't
pay to show or sell my art.
Galleries here take anywhere
between 40 - 60 %, so I mark up my
asking price accordingly. You can
find smaller venues that will take
as little as 20 %, and there's
always the restaurant/cafe/bistro
route. Some of them don't even take
a cut, because they appreciate
getting there place decorated for
free.
Co-ops, avoid them like the plague. All you end up doing is paying their rent.
Instead of your own!
Co-ops, avoid them like the plague. All you end up doing is paying their rent.
Instead of your own!
133 messages posted
United Kingdom
40-60% is the main price over here,
although in London I've heard as
high as 90%. The co op I have'nt
come across, but thanks for the
warning. The pub/ bistro I'm still
trying and the places I've
contacted don't charge for display
over here as well. Have you tried
advertising in magazines, on the
next big sale I'm thinking of
placing a quarter page add, to coin
a saying I heard from this web
site,'its all about net working'.
646 messages posted
United States of America
40-60% is the main price over here,
although in London I've heard as
high as 90%. The co op I have'nt
come across, but thanks for the
warning. The pub/ bistro I'm still
trying and the places I've
contacted don't charge for display
over here as well. Have you tried
advertising in magazines, on the
next big sale I'm thinking of
placing a quarter page add, to coin
a saying I heard from this web
site,'its all about net working'.-
fester aka
I'll go 90%, if they sell each piece for a million dollars. lol
Some co-ops disquise themselves as members only galleries or some other ruse. Bottom line, if they ask for money up front from the artist, it's probably a scam.
I used to get free full page color ads, because I knew some of the editors. I don't think it really made a difference. At least nobody ever came up to me and said they'd seen them. We are so inundated with ads that a large majority of them(especially print ads) go unseen. Probably just as well to advertise on the net for free.
I'll go 90%, if they sell each piece for a million dollars. lol
Some co-ops disquise themselves as members only galleries or some other ruse. Bottom line, if they ask for money up front from the artist, it's probably a scam.
I used to get free full page color ads, because I knew some of the editors. I don't think it really made a difference. At least nobody ever came up to me and said they'd seen them. We are so inundated with ads that a large majority of them(especially print ads) go unseen. Probably just as well to advertise on the net for free.
133 messages posted
United Kingdom
The net hasn't been as good as I
would of thought, I believe it's
due to the mass of sites and
artist, I now belong to six and
only 2 have had sales and one of
those still hasn't payed up. But
after sales from the web, especialy
after art fairs has brought a few
sales. I think once people have
seen the artwork in the flesh they
have a better idea. After all we
see classic artists on the web and
I dare say a lot of people still
like to see the real thing. Thats
where the web and magazines fail
against galleries/art fairs. And
then of course we are back to
costs!!
719 messages posted
United Kingdom
Yes it is very costly now to put on
an exhibition, especially if you
want to broaden your selling area.
I have been invited to take part in various fine art exhibitions in the USA and Europe.
But the transportation or shipping costs plus the extras like insurance, and export duty really doesnt make it viable.
My problem is I am a businesswoman first and artist second.
But I do agree youve got more chance of a sale if the customer has viewed your work in real life. then you get the feedback from their social circle.
I do 'open studios' that helps but has gone dead recently with econmic climate as it is.
I have been invited to take part in various fine art exhibitions in the USA and Europe.
But the transportation or shipping costs plus the extras like insurance, and export duty really doesnt make it viable.
My problem is I am a businesswoman first and artist second.
But I do agree youve got more chance of a sale if the customer has viewed your work in real life. then you get the feedback from their social circle.
I do 'open studios' that helps but has gone dead recently with econmic climate as it is.
133 messages posted
United Kingdom
The openarts idea I have been
interested in for some time now,
but it's finding the space to show
it. i rent share house with two
other people and they won't allow
this to happen in the house. So
it's just finding a simple place to
display. i looked into sort term
rent of one of the countless shops
that are empty in local towns.
Short term to the property world
means 6 months and a price tag to
go with it! It's something I don't
understand, one would of thought a
landlord, be it a person or company
would be happy to earn a bit of
extra money, not to mention seeing
empty shops is bad PR for towns and
local councils. Having an artist or
artists showing their work would
surely improve a towns status.
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